The Real Story Behind College Closures - Requiem for a College - 2nd edition (April 2025)

Gary D Stocker (00:01.033)
Welcome back to what I'm going to call is a very special episode of This Week in College Viability. I've done a lot of media recently, and when reporters asked me when the college closure period started, I have used the 2017 closure of St. Joseph's College in Rensselaer, Indiana as my response. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's important because of my podcast guests today. And since 2017,

Many private and some public colleges have closed. And my two special guests are here to update us on the second edition of a fabulous book called Requiem for College due out later this year. John Nichols, you lived it, you wrote it, you published it, and now you're updating it. And Kate Colbert, you are publishing the second edition. You wrote the forward and driving John to the finish line. John Nichols, welcome.

Jon (00:55.209)
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Gary D Stocker (00:57.879)
Kate Colbert, a pleasure to have you on the podcast. We could do this every day. You and I could talk higher education anytime we wanted to. So, John, The Requiem for a College, just a fascinating book. You know, I've talked about it many times, both recorded and elsewise. And it was really, it addressed the personal impact and the business decisions of St. Joseph College in Rensselaer, Indiana. John, how is the second edition similar and how is it different to the first edition?

Jon (01:11.241)
Thank you.

Jon (01:28.627)
This one has the benefit of more research that I've.

Gary D Stocker (01:33.409)
So going to jump in here. Would you mind leaning in toward the microphone a little bit? Give you better audio.

Jon (01:36.17)
Sure. Is this better? Is this better? OK. This edition has the benefit of more research since about seven or eight years have elapsed. And we can look at other institutions that have gone through this sad fate and draw more commonalities. In the book, I look at institutions like Iowa Wesleyan, Cardinal Stritch.

Gary D Stocker (01:39.467)
Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Jon (02:04.957)
St. Gregory's in Oklahoma, just a variety of them. we start to see while every closure is different, we do see points of commonality. So I'm able to draw upon that as well as other studies that have been done since then. And also talk to more experts, Dr. Paula Langto, Dr. Malik Khoury, and of course, Kate, and several other people who have been

leaders in trying to draw attention to this, this sad trend. And when you said earlier in other discussions that you marked 2017, the closure of St. Joseph's college as the beginning of the trend, I would say it certainly is when the accelerator got hit and a lot of the trend is not going anywhere really, but, hoping to bring a little more.

Gary D Stocker (02:52.513)
Yeah, yeah.

Jon (03:03.059)
focus to it and hopefully help others.

Gary D Stocker (03:10.003)
And John, of the things that almost touched me about the first edition of Requiem for a College was the two parts. And the first part was really you detailing the human component from yourself, your colleagues, the students, the community, and even some degree, the leaders. And the second part where you just painstakingly outlined the less than good decisions and the non-decisions that the college leaders made there.

From writing the book, the first edition, and from your experience as college faculty and as an author, what are some of the warning signs you would encourage faculty to monitor at their college in 2025 and beyond?

Jon (03:53.482)
Well, I think a couple of signs are usually self-evident and that would be, first of all, enrollment. If you start seeing smaller classes and you start seeing just fewer students in the hallway, then that's a sure sign. That, like I said, that's evident. Deferred maintenance. If things are not getting replaced, not getting repaired and administration is saying, well, we're going to look at that maybe next fiscal year.

let's say, again, that becomes sort of self-evident. What might not be evident, and this is something faculty should be asking about, are the tuition discount rates. I always keep coming back to those. If you're private college and you're trying to stay competitive, often those tend to be very high. And we've talked many times, Gary, about how sometimes there'll be universities that begin to brag.

even humbly, that they have a large number of enrollment for a new academic year. And we will talk to ourselves, say, well, what was your discount rate? Are you giving away the store? And is it just something that's not sustainable? While, yes, you do have more students in seats, what cost? And how many there are on not just discounting the tuition for

Gary D Stocker (05:04.235)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jon (05:21.677)
scholarships or something like that, but athletics, club and activities. At St. Joseph's College, we had all manner of types of discounts. So I would be asking those questions if I were a faculty member. And another thing is that if you start to hear people say what I see are common phrases, I not only studied college closures, but disasters.

I got into a kick there for a while. I was looking at sort of human influenced disasters, Johnstone flood, the challenger, Chernobyl, things that you wouldn't think have anything to do with it, but it does have to do with human psychology and how people act in times of crisis and or impending situations of stress and strain. And there tends to be a

refrain of, well, we've been here before and we can handle that. Well, we, heard that at St. John's certainly at the institution had been several times, but 2025 is a different year. Everything is different. And I don't know how many people who are saying that phrase realize it or it's not going to happen. Now we're going to be all right. Positive thinking is great, but it

I think that there's just a human, urge to go to denial many times because thinking the unthinkable is not fun. And I know I was in a bit of denial with this situation, despite all of the warning signs I said should be there. Another one might be a steady stream of we're going to be all right from administration. And because even if.

uncomfortable facts are brought to their attention, whether it's in a campus meeting or via faculty senate or what have you. If you're getting back, no, we got it under control. That is another sign. That is something that a lot of administrations, not higher ed, but just governing bodies never want to look out of control. So if you're getting that repeatedly, I would start to least ask more pointed questions.

Kate Colbert (07:44.076)
Yeah, I mean, that's actually something, Gary, I've heard you say before, is that this sort of brushing it aside, we see this a lot in higher education. When a school is really struggling, we hear leadership say, we're fine, we're fine, we're fine, we're fine, we're closing. And there's just really sort of nothing sort of in between that. so, you know, interestingly, early in my higher education career, I'm a marketer by trade and a writer by trade. I went and got my MBA because I noticed really early on

Jon (07:59.498)
Yes.

Kate Colbert (08:13.474)
that when you work in a medical school, there's a lot of really great doctors in biomedical sciences. And when you work at a liberal arts school, you've got people who know a lot about math and English and whatnot. But in terms of people really understanding how it all works and how to keep an institution running and understanding the finances, not everybody in higher education knows how to do that. And so in addition to all the things that John just mentioned, I think that...

faculty and staff and institutions of higher education should be looking at their endowment size? Is it getting smaller? Is it small to begin with? I know, Gary, you talk about if it's less than $50 million, boy, that's not a whole lot of money to dip into in an emergency. Are they sort of borrowing from Peter to pay Paul? is your institution taking a lot of money out of its endowment and you can, those numbers are available.

I would say be looking at net income losses. Did your institution actually lose money? I think a lot of people who work in higher education will say, we're not supposed to be profitable if they're a nonprofit. They say we're nonprofit. Not understanding what that means, but you need to have a balance sheet that works. And then I think one of the big issues that we're going to see more and more of now that we're seeing a lot of changes coming out of Washington and state governments as well are appropriation losses. So a lot of colleges and universities

have been able to balance their budget based on appropriations, money coming in from government sources. And if those things are drying up, sort of now what? And I think that if we're gonna work in higher education, we need to understand how to look at these numbers.

Gary D Stocker (09:49.409)
So Jonathan, I'm gonna, John, excuse me. I wanna ask you a question about since the first edition of Requiem for a College came out, and it's reasonable to conclude from that first edition of the book that the leadership at St. Joseph's in Rensselaer, Indiana was less than forthcoming. Do you, and the research you've done, and maybe Kate, if you've got some on this as well, do you see more of that as you were preparing the second edition of Requiem?

Jon (10:16.515)
I see more of it from other administrations. It really, I'll get back to St. Joseph's in just a little bit, but I want to use a concrete example of administrative lines that are questionable. I have been talking with someone who is connected with a small private college and they've been in dire straits for a long time.

Gary D Stocker (10:21.899)
Right, shmeet.

Jon (10:45.191)
He privately told me that the institution's bank has said we will no longer extend your line of credit. This is just recently. So the school made an announcement to the public, are between banks right now. And I just couldn't believe it. mean, that's, that is truly putting lipstick on a pig. so I see this kind of replicating what happened at St. Joe's St.

Gary D Stocker (10:58.167)
Oh guys. Oh my.

Kate Colbert (11:05.816)
Wow.

Jon (11:14.247)
St. Joseph's, it was just a an effort to not look like you aren't in control. While behind the scenes, there's a great deal of panic just just genuinely not knowing what to do. And I think that's where the lack of forthcoming information, the lack of how things close down. I had one board members say I was not impressed by how we

close things. And this was one who had voted for the closure. And that was a problem. And in a sort of information ecosystem where there is a lack of information, well, rumor and conspiracy grows in the dark. So yeah, I, I look back on that and I see how a lot of things could be avoided. And I think this goes to a point we'll probably get into later on in our discussion of what Kate and I have.

Gary D Stocker (11:57.045)
Yep.

Kate Colbert (11:59.992)
Yep.

Jon (12:11.101)
come to call ethical shutdown of if it has to happen, how you're going to handle it and what needs to be done in a way that treats the employees and the students fairly.

Gary D Stocker (12:26.131)
And Kate, the next question is for you. And Kate Colbert, certainly earned the right with all the work you've done throughout higher education to answer this question. I'm going ask you one question, and for a couple of different audiences. And I know you've got a story about how the three of us started working together, but how important is this second edition of Requiem for a College for college leaders, for faculty and staff, for students, communities? Take that, Araya. Take that if will, please.

Kate Colbert (12:55.136)
Yeah, so I mean, let me first start by saying that this book is a really marvelous read. John is an English professor and he's a brilliant writer. so, you there are a lot of books about higher education right now, and not all of them are all that interesting to read. This is a really interesting read. It is riveting. You know, in Requiem for a College, John's talents as a writer really show. I think this is it's a memoir, but it's an industry critique.

Jon (13:05.033)
Thank you.

Kate Colbert (13:22.638)
And I also think it's sort of literary gold. It's suspenseful. It's emotional. It's humorous. You know, you're going to laugh and you're going to cry, even though that sounds really cliche and it's true. And if you care at all about higher education, you're also going to read this book and come away frustrated and even furious. I think this story, you know, even if you know what to expect, is going to grip you. That's how I got sucked into the first edition of this book and

literally was trying, like stalking, like, who is John Nichols? Like, how do I find this guy? I want to talk to him. Like, and John wasn't really active on LinkedIn at the time. And I'm like, who doesn't have a LinkedIn profile? you know, and exactly, I was like, oh my gosh, it was great. But it was, you know, I mean, listen, I heard about this book from somebody I was doing some consulting for, who was an alum of St. Joseph's College, who I, my book commencement had just come out.

Jon (14:02.985)
Elusive like a Sasquatch. That's how I'll call it. Who is this creature?

Kate Colbert (14:20.024)
He told me about Requiem for a College, he you have to read it. I bought it that day, started reading it, fell in love with it, reached out to Gary and told you about it. You've got to read this book, you read it. And then we both started stalking and we're like, there's this LinkedIn profile that says Jonathan Nichols, but there's no photo. And we just both kept sending messages and eventually got John sort of, and now he has really become somebody that people turn to and lean on and ask about these issues.

Gary D Stocker (14:29.207)
Sure did.

Gary D Stocker (14:39.351)
What?

Gary D Stocker (14:47.029)
Amen. Amen.

Kate Colbert (14:49.664)
In terms of who this book is for and why the second edition is so important, would say for college leaders, this book is a wake up call. You know, you just can't keep smiling and posing for photos at homecoming and pretending that everything's OK. You know, we're watching you and we're holding you accountable in this industry. You must come up with a strategy for how you're going to identify, communicate about and address financial exigency. Interestingly, at St. Joseph's.

The faculty handbook actually had information in there that said in that contract with faculty that should the university come upon some sort of financial exigency, we will involve the faculty in our plans for how to get ourselves out of that. And then they did not because they were that was like an academic exercise writing that handbook. It's like they thought it would never happen to them. But but I think, we have to be, you know, college leaders need to read this book and then ask themselves.

Have we done a tabletop exercise lately with our cabinet about what we're gonna do if all hell breaks loose financially? Have we been asking department directors and chairs to make sort of risk registers about trends that are concerning them? Like if this goes wrong, we'll do what to sort of fix it or how we're gonna sort of keep the everything from sort of leak, the boat from leaking. I think that too many leaders are afraid that if they admit that something's wrong, that they're experiencing some sort of tough times that

that while that might motivate donors or alumni or others or even faculty or staff to help right the ship, it can also worry the marketplace, right, about your viability and then your new class evaporates or your transfer out rate goes up. But you cannot hide from this challenge. You need a plan. I would say for faculty and staff, this book is going to gut you. I hope that it also motivates you to pay better attention and get more involved in the operations of your college or university. I would say, you you start with a gut check.

Gary D Stocker (16:19.607)
Absolutely.

Kate Colbert (16:41.012)
and to not cut any, or pulling punches here, do the freaking math. People who work at higher education institutions are smart. So quit looking the other way and assuming that your CFO will tell you that something is wrong if something is wrong. If you have X number of students paying an average net tuition of Y, that's how much tuition revenue. And then think about what's the average faculty salary times how many people, times how many staff.

How much did you pay for that new building you just put up that you took out a bond for or whatever else? Do you have any other major streams of revenue coming in other than tuition? And when you look at those numbers, ask yourself, is that sustainable year over year to you? Or can Mrs. Brubaker only die once and leave you her million dollar estate, right? And so if you are, if you're dependent upon donations, that's a problem. Do you thinking that begging ex customers

Jon (17:11.677)
Okay.

Jon (17:27.399)
Right. Right.

Kate Colbert (17:36.866)
to keep you afloat is a viable budget strategy. It's just not. And you got to look at the real numbers. You look at the college viability app, you look at iPads data, you go to your website where your institution is legally required to put this year's audited financials and look at them. And if you don't understand how to read them, ask somebody to help you. And I would say for students and families, these are the people who my heart breaks for the most. I've been doing a lot of consulting.

for folks whose kids are deciding where to go to school and they're asking me, will this institution be alive in five years? And so this book is the kind of insider story that you're not going to get anywhere else. It just doesn't exist. This Rec Room for College is really unique. So if you want to send your kid to a small, private liberal arts college, especially one that's religiously affiliated, you have to know that that is the very definition of the kind of school that is ripe for closure. So read this book first.

Then do the rest of your homework to select a truly healthy, strong, viable school. And I would say for community leaders, you know, before you agree to serve as a community participant on, you know, a college or university strategic planning committee before you, you know, be sure that you really understand what's afoot at that college or university. Your name and your institution's brand. If you work for a hospital manufacturing plant, maybe you're the mayor of the town. Your brand, your reputation is non-negotiable. So before you

hitch your wagons to a college or university that might be lying to you about how well they're doing and that might be closing their doors this next May, make sure you do your homework first. And I think that this book will help you understand what that looks like. know, I've said it before and I will say it again, you I stand kind of on this weird razor's edge as a higher education author and prognosticator. I often write love letters to academia, but I serve as a devil's advocate. And so when it comes to

Jon (19:26.697)
Thank

Kate Colbert (19:32.502)
my involvement with John's brilliant book. It really is on both of those sides of that coin. This industry is full of treasures and it's full of troubles right now and people deserve to understand which is which.

Gary D Stocker (19:46.131)
And for the listeners, of course, you're just getting the audio version. But as we're recording this, have video going. And as Kate was saying all the nice things about John, you missed his blushing. So my apologies for that. We're just having the audio version of this released. John, you've lived this. And I talked about this in the first edition. And how does just the threat of a college closure, even college cut packs, impact faculty morale and productivity?

Kate Colbert (19:55.711)
Aww.

Jon (19:55.752)
that the

Kate Colbert (20:00.39)
you

Jon (20:16.525)
It honestly depends. And I think that if you are talking about a small private institution, particularly one that's religiously affiliated, then it's going to be a tremendous morale blow. It is worrisome because I tell you, most of the folks who are working and teaching at these institutions, they've put their life into it more often than not. That

I think most professors see their work as a calling, but there's something about the small environment where everybody feels like they're building something together. And so the, the feeling or the sense that that might go away is, is doubly heartbreaking. And I think also plays into it. When you're talking about morale, it also plays into the denial.

the idea that this center of your universe could completely fall away is something just too big to fathom. So in other cases, if it's another institution that is mid-sized or publicly affiliated, and yes, the public ones need to worry too, because there are troubles brewing, then you might have a different sort of issue where

Kate Colbert (21:16.919)
No.

Yeah.

Jon (21:43.274)
People are going to kind of like they would in a lot of other lines of work. I'm not going to be giving my a hundred percent. I'm looking on higher ed jobs or looking in the private sector and you can only do a few things at once. And if they need to survive, they're going to start applying and that will get a little more of their attention. And so it

It's shaky no matter how you look at it, but in terms of the morale, really does depend on what situation you're

Gary D Stocker (22:16.439)
John, want to say, go ahead.

Kate Colbert (22:16.974)
You know, sorry, I was just gonna jump in on this for just a second. know, one of the interesting things and some of the research that I've done is that 58 % of higher education leaders believe that their institution is in trouble. 58 % believe their institution is in trouble. And we only got that sort of data because we measured it anonymously and that helps with truth telling. But...

Jon (22:32.105)
Well, yeah.

Kate Colbert (22:42.634)
That's problematic and John's talking about what happens to faculty morale and productivity and staff morale and productivity. But the threat that an institution might eventually close starts to hurt every single stakeholder group. So I have degrees from four different institutions, two of which I'm a little bit concerned about, one of which actually closed its campus and sold its building yesterday, but says they're still alive.

Do you think that alums and donors will continue to support institutions that they think are on the bubble? And the answer is no. And so it starts to break hearts around the community. There was actually a really beautiful article that was just written about talking about public institution. Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, a regional public that's lost like half of its students in the last 20 years. And what that's doing to the town, a very rural area is just

Jon (23:15.932)
Excellent point.

Kate Colbert (23:38.883)
It's all so heartbreaking. The impact is far and wide and deep.

Gary D Stocker (23:45.007)
And John, the last big question that I have is for you. And from my perspective, and also an opinion, college faculty have the power to drive change. And yet historically college faculty have a general history of protesting almost any change offered at their college. There was a book that Brian Rosenberg wrote, the second best book, according to Bapto Requiem, and the title is Whatever It Is, I'm Against It.

Jon (24:02.194)
You

Yeah.

Gary D Stocker (24:11.519)
And of course it was from the perspective of faculty not agreeing with things. In this era where college closures, and not just the closure, John, but the cutbacks and the layoffs are almost endemic, what's the best approach from your perspective and from the book for faculty when pressed with these really acute financial challenges?

Jon (24:34.377)
Well, that's a good one, Gary. think that it, I think there's a couple things we are gonna have to change. I think that's almost a universal, maybe not universal, but it's definitely making the rounds in higher education. You've heard from Dr. Melick-Corey and others who are trying to

Gary D Stocker (24:39.435)
I spent years writing my questions on.

Jon (25:03.623)
revitalize different campuses. He was very successful with Unity. And I think for a bunch of people like college professors who are supposed to be open to the ideas of the world, I admit fully that we're, we've got very firm ideas of how things should be. So I think two things have to go on. There's going to be a kind of a middle ground. Everything's got to change. We've got to be looking at how we can change delivering classes.

how we are, what different types of degrees were awarding or certificate programs or continuing ed different populations to reach out to. all know the demographic cliff is, it depends on who you talk to, but, we're either right at it or about to go over it. so yeah, there's a lot of different, we have to be, try to be as best we can open to change.

While at the same time preserving what is I see a beautiful babysitting and really filthy bathwater that my fear is that everything will be overhauled to a point where we've lost part of the meaning of college. And that means educating the entire individual and developing them in addition to providing job skills. Now that happens usually in the.

in the general education component. Now, are there new, creative, innovative ways we can deliver those general education programs in manners that a student won't feel like they're just rehashing high school? Absolutely. I am 100 % for that. I am very proud to be involved in efforts right now with team teaching, learning communities, things that are new. And well, I guess they're not really new in concept, but.

things that are different than the traditional cafeteria, like I said, making a student feel like they're rehashing high school. So we can accomplish keeping the spirit and mission of a higher education institution, but changing it for the 21st century. Again, buy Kate's book commencement because there are a lot of great ideas in there for doing it.

Gary D Stocker (27:20.971)
Yep. So, okay, before you wrap this up, talk about the logistics. I know you're in final stages of getting the book ready to go. Tell us about when the book will be available, how listeners can get the book, and I'll take it from there.

Kate Colbert (27:34.284)
Yeah, so we are deep in the editing and just did a cover reveal of the beautiful new book. So John just did a cover reveal on LinkedIn. So make sure you check that out. We're expecting to release the book this summer, so summer 2025. We will be making an announcement relatively soon about when the book will go up for preorder on Amazon. You'll be able to preorder it in paperback and Kindle ebook editions. I think one of the best ways to

stay in the know right now would be to connect to John on LinkedIn, where he'll be providing a lot of updates. And if you like, comment and or share that way when he can go back to those posts and provide updates, you have raised your hand to say I'm interested in this book and then you'll be among the first to know when it's available for pre-order. we expect to have this in your hands before you know it. And we're really, really very excited.

Gary D Stocker (28:33.565)
So for the listeners who, this is the first time they've heard John Nichols speak about higher education, you have to be impressed with how thoughtful and analytical his recitation and his ideas are. And that came out in the first edition of Requiem for a College. Remember, the man lived it. The man lived it intimately. And you don't have a better source, a better perspective than what John Nichols can provide.

This is an industry. Higher education that is in the middle of changes. Admit it, don't admit it, whatever you want. But this book as it comes out is an important perspective. Agree with what John Nichols says, disagree, but you'll want to get the book because it offers a perspective. And if you're an academic, you want to listen to other people's ideas and nobody presents the perspective of college is in trouble than John Nichols. So John, always grateful for you making time.

Jon (29:29.705)
you

Gary D Stocker (29:30.903)
Kate, you've written your own book. You're publishing this through So Retreat Communications. Guys, I wish both of you the best. I'm going to write some kind of comment on LinkedIn, John, so I can get a heads up on pre-ordering the book. And we'll do this again sometime. So Kate Nichols. Kate Nichols. I'll edit that for her. So Kate Colbert, John Nichols, thanks to both of you. We'll get a look again. We'll look forward to talking to you again in the future.

Kate Colbert (29:53.24)
Thanks so much for having us.

Jon (29:54.419)
Thank you so very much.